Not the place to go deep into theology or study of the Bible. But. Do yourself this favor (readers/listeners here, do the same thing) -- go to Biblehub .com (or your favorite Bible study website/app) and do a search for "๐ฎ๐ป๐๐ถ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฟ๐ถ๐๐." What do you find? Where are all the occurrences [5x] of that word found (clue: 1 Jn 2 [3x] & 4 [1x] and 2 Jn [1x])? Now, go find all the occurrences of that word in the Revelation (clue: you won't).
And now read what John says about the "antichrist." Who is he/they? When will he/they appear? Oh, whoops ... ๐๐ผ๐ต๐ป ๐๐ฒ๐น๐น๐ ๐๐ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ต๐ฒ ๐ถ๐ ๐๐๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฌ ๐ถ๐ป ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐น๐ฑ, ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ถ๐ป ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ ๐บ๐ฎ๐ป๐ "๐ฎ๐ป๐๐ถ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฟ๐ถ๐๐๐" ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐น๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ ๐ถ๐ป ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐น๐ฑ. When was that? I am quite confident that John wrote his Gospel, letters, and the Revelation before the destruction of Jerusalem. So that would be before 70AD, probably in the 60s of the 1stC.
So where in the world does all this talk come from about the Bible preaching about the coming of some future "antichrist" ... ??? ๐๐'๐ ๐ฝ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐น๐น๐๐๐ผ๐ผ๐ฑ (ie, profitable "biblical/religious" fiction)! They (antichrists) have been with us for millennia, as John (meaning as God the Holy Spirit speaking/writing through him), explains in 1 Jn 2.18-19, 22-23. Read and learn. BTW, I am one of many that also fully believe that the Revelation, the Apocalypse, records history past through symbolic language, but that's another big topic.
If you read 1 John 2:18 carefully, you will see that John said, ".... you have heard that Antichrist SHALL COME (future), and even now, there are many antichrists..." So John taught that there was ONE that was coming yet in the future who would be a pretender, a counterfeit Christ, but that already there were similar spirits abroad in the church with a goal to war against and REPLACE the presence of the Holy Spirit among God's people. John made it clear that these are SPIRITS that war against the Holy Spirit in the church and work through given individuals ("false prophets" 4:1). Because they work deceptively, with these individuals pretending to be 'bona fide' Christians, the spirits have to BE TESTED FOR - DISCERNED, because they APPEAR outwardly TO BE OKAY. (They are RELIGIOUS SPIRITS who bring deadness into the church, replacing subtly the life and presence of Jesus the Christ. ['Christ' means 'the anointed One' and the Gk. prefix 'anti' means both 'against' and 'in place of'.] )
The Antichrist's ultimate reign in the earth - brief and bitter - is portrayed in Rev. 13. We understand who this one is (in that chapter), even though the title 'antichrist' is not spelled out. He is spoken of many times in the Old Testament as well as the New, where in 2 Thess. 2, he is called 'the man of sin' (v. 3) and 'the lawless one' (v. 8) and where we are informed that he will come 'in the power of Satan with all power and supernatural, lying wonders' (v. 9). To write him off as a Hollywood fabrication is a serious error and completely unbiblical. God will use this man's brief rule over all the earth to bring the earth's people to a fullness of rebellion against Him (as they worship him, as per his demand), thus bringing them to 'ripeness' for His tremendous judgment on them all and thus the final cleansing of the earth of all wickedness. Jesus won the victory over Satan at Calvary, but His victory has not yet been fully executed in the unseating of Satan as the 'prince of this world' (John 14:30). That unseating will happen after Antichrist's brief (3 1/2 years) rule. Then all the earth and the remaining inhabitants will come under the righteous and beneficent rule of Christ -- the true Christ. The One who died for all and rose again.
Once again, not exactly the venue for an in-depth discussion of these topics, but I will respond a little to what you have said, for the sake especially of Chris, who I fully believe continues to seek the truth. I'm available, btw, if you ever have the desire ... let me know.
First of all, the verb in greek [erchetai] is present tense, middle or passive, ie, "comes" or "is coming." But he explains immediately to his listeners/readers, who have been perplexed by it all, who have been waiting for Jesus' prophecy that "all this will happen to / come upon this generation" to be fulfilled, that the fact is that "antichrist" IS ALREADY in the world, in fact that MANY antichrists have already arisen in the world.
He, in fact, uses that fact as evidence that they, the faithful on one side, including faithful Israel, the faithful and elect remnant God promised throughout the OT, esp. through the prophets, to save, and apostate Israel, the majority, on the other, are nearing the *"last hour" -- the establishment of the long-promised Kingdom of Christ, the New Jerusalem, for the former; and the end, the total destruction of the dying, now totally corrupted system of apostate Israel, now based almost totally on manmade doctrines and traditions that had little to do with the law of Moses or anything else God had commanded, as Jesus pointed out many times in the Gospels, often quoting the prophets, like Isaiah -- paraphrased, "you worship God with your lips, your fake external behaviors, but your hearts are far from Him, following as commandments the traditions of man."
[*Another topic, but an important one -- the "last times" / "end times" / "last hour" refer to the end of apostate Israel, of Jerusalem and its Temple "worship," of the sacrificial system that had been completely corrupted, the fulfillment of the prophecies, starting with Moses [Dt 28-31, Lv 26] of the final punishment of the those that had broken their Covenant with YHWH, in fulfillment of that Covenant made on Sinai w/the children of Israel, in this case, of the curses that were delineated in the covenant that in the end would come upon those that would break it. It was the end of that epoch / era ... the end and final fulfillment of the Old Covenant to make way for the full enactment of the New Covenant (eg, Heb8.13), where there would be no more physical "Temple" but the temple of God would be spread throughout the world, now alive and well in the hearts of all who belong to Him. So much more, but it's not the direct topic here....]
John states that "they" (plural ... these antichrists already in the world) were once part of "them" ... perhaps, or actually very likely, Christians, likely Jewish "believers" in Christ, who left the faith, the teachings of Jesus, because they really never belonged to Him, never really believed. And John makes it even clearer by explaining exactly what he means by "antichrist" in 2.22-23: "... the one [anyone] denying that Jesus is the Christ ... this one is the antichrist, the one [anyone] denying the Father and the Son. EVERYONE denying the Son neither has he the Father; the one/anyone confessing the Son also has the Father." So, "antichrist" is applied to all that deny Jesus as the Son of God and the promised Messiah that had come as a man, in the flesh (1Jn.4.2). And John emphasizes once again in 1Jn4.3 the "spirit of the antichrist, which you heard is coming and IS NOW ALREADY IN THE WORLD."
So Rev 13 ... very briefly, as books have been written, I'll point out that from my study of the Word of God, from all evidence I have, the Beast that emerges from the sea (the "sea" in Scriptures, esp. here in the Revelation (eg, 17.15), refers frequently to "the gentiles" while "the land," as in "those that dwell on/in the Land," refers to the Land of Israel) is Rome, another of the Kingdoms of this world whose goal/motivation by all evidence, because of who is behind these kingdoms, the Dragon, is always the destruction of those created in God's image, and esp. now of the male child, His son in the flesh, the Messiah that God sent for the salvation of those that belong to Him and of the world, the Lamb of God, slain but now Alive and all-powerful, the Lion of Judah, and those that follow Him. The power behind Rome, the Beast from the sea, is Satan -- the Dragon of Rev.12.
And we see another Beast rising up from "the land" (v.11) -- from the Land of Israel. This beast appears to be pious, godly, as indicated by its having two horns, "like a lamb," but the fact is that when it opens its mouth out pour the words and "wisdom" of the Dragon. It represents apostate Israel, and especially its apostate religious leaders who enjoy power and authority through their connection with Rome. Its why Caiaphas tells the Sanhedrin that Jesus has got to go, o/w He's going to destroy the good thing we've got going with Rome and they'll come and end our party that has made us so rich (think the Temple trade, and why Jesus drove out the traders/sellers) and powerful (through hundreds of manmade rules and regulations) ... better He die than we lose everything. Can't have someone around calling Himself and being called the "King of the Jews" ... we only have one king, they will cry to Pilate, amidst their cries to "Crucify him!" ... and that is Caesar!
So, there is no "antichrist" in this chapter, neither written nor implied. John already defined what was meant by that word, and the Romans don't fit that -- they were not once "believers" in Christ that had apostasized. And unless there were some in the Sanhedrin of that time that had at one time professed belief in Jesus as the Christ and then recanted, one could not say they that there were "antichrists" among them either. So you have simply overlaid the Word of God with your interpretation, which I am suggesting is totally incorrect. Your creating "antichrists" where they don't exist.
And btw, my best understanding of v.18 is Nero -- Neron Qsr. John states that the name can be understood by those who have understanding. And he was speaking / writing to Christians of the first century. And I'll end this here. But this is just a thumbnail. God's Word is so rich and deep....
Good question, and the answer is simple -- there is no uppercase in the Greek, they're all lower case. If you've got uppercase in your Bible, it was made so by some person who determined to do so influenced by his/her own interpretation(s) of Scripture. In this case, it's just a man-originated decision, as were chapters and verses and "paragraph" headings, among other things.
One of the benefits of always looking at the original Greek and Hebrew* is that it helps reveal the biases of the translators, often by their very choice, or exclusion, of certain words over others. (*An interlinear Bible, esp. online, such as at biblehub.com, is IMO very helpful, if not critical, for study of the Bible, and it doesn't require full knowledge of those languages, though there is an extra benefit for those that do have that added knowledge.)
Cont'd from previous response which begins, "Just a few points in response..."
There are MANY other Scriptures which speak of this man, though it's only in 1 John that he's labeled "Antichrist." This labeling is a key to understanding how he functions and the fact that he arises from within the church, appearing very pious and godly. This is how he will deceive MANY, as Jesus prophesied in Matt. 24. John started out, "You have heard that antichrist is coming...." I pondered, 'WHERE had they heard it...??? And I thought, yes! He is referring to Jesus' teaching in Matt. 24 on the End....' So Matt. 24 -- Jesus' teaching on the END -- begins with the warning, "See that you are not deceived, for MANY shall come in My name, claiming the anointing and will deceive MANY." If this guy didn't show up as a PIOUS, GODLY person in the beginning, Israel would NEVER make the treaty with him (Dan. 9:27), nor would MANY BE DECEIVED! John's teaching on antichrist spirits and how they work is extremely vital for understanding this guy that is coming and how he will arise and deceive many, as Jesus prophesied.
We look for a treaty between a 'man on the rise' and Israel, a treaty which apparently will allow for the rebuilding of their temple in Jerusalem! We will beware this man, for he is a DECEIVER.
There's no question that John distinguishes "one that is (yet)coming" from a plural 'group' that is already present and afflicting the church already in John's time - deceivers, because they have to be TESTED FOR - DISCERNED. (1 John 4)
Secondly, in both Daniel and Revelation, the term 'beast' is used for these great, pagan, idolatrous kingdoms that afflicted the people of God. Included is the END TIME kingdom -- a revived Roman empire -- (Dan. 2:31-34, especially v. 33 - both the legs and toes are of iron - Rome -- we see the earth already being divided into 10 regions - [the toes], and, Daniel prophesied that it would be 'the people of the prince that SHALL come that will destroy Jerusalem - 70 AD - Romans destroyed Jerusalem. Hence, a prince of the revived Roman empire will arise...) (Sorry, getting in the weeds a little here.....) But my point is, that 'beast' is used interchangeably for both the kingdom and its leader, and you must discern from the context which is being referred to in any given place. THEREFORE, Rev. 13, which is the chapter on the reign of Antichrist, coming yet in the future, starts out speaking of the beast KINGDOM (the 10-toed one of Daniel - see, it has 10 horns) but by v. 4, is referring -- clearly -- to an INDIVIDUAL, which I submit IS the Antichrist. I refer you again to 2 Thess. 2:3-4, which describes the actions of this man that is yet coming, when he GOES INTO THE TEMPLE AND DECLARES HIMSELF TO BE GOD, and demands worship as God. This has never happened - never been fulfilled yet. KEY POINT! (Cont'd in another reply.)
By your stating, "There's no question that John...", you're also making it clear to me that you already feel you understand it all, so there's really no good reason for me to argue further. I DO question what you wrote, and in fact disagree. So there -- there IS a question. You also state in another response -- "We look for a treaty between a 'man on the rise' and Israel...." I don't, so once again, you have obviously decided to believe someone's interpretation and are simply promoting it. Free world with free speech. But I for one disagree completely that that is what the Scriptures state and I am NOT looking for that.
And I'm responding, as I said, for Chris's sake. I want him to know that there are other interpretations than the most popular ones, many of which I at one time or other believed or tried to believe but in the end couldn't because they contradict other Scriptures in so many ways and places. So, God bless you. I've done what I wanted to do here. Chris, I'm available if you ever have Biblical questions that I might be able to help you with.
Iโve spent enough time considering eschatology that Iโm at least generally familiar with the various viewpoints. I know there are other arguments. I donโt really side with mainstream Christianity about anything, so I assume from the get-go that theyโre wrong and then just thing about which interpretation would most well express Jesusโ preeminence in virtue and thought. The right thing is the only meaning that wouldโve been chosen by that metric which, of course, all the rest is also based on. Which answer best expresses that?
Hey Chris, you say, "...which interpretation would most well express Jesusโ preeminence in virtue and thought. The right thing is the only meaning that wouldโve been chosen by that metric which, of course, all the rest is also based on. Which answer best expresses that?"
Not sure I understand what you're saying here and if you're actually asking a question at the end with "which answer best expresses that?" Could you flesh that out a bit?
I generally agree with you about "mainstream Christianity" and their latest and greatest interpretations of the Bible (probably going back a few hundred years now), but that doesn't mean that all Christians are wrong, in which case, you, if you consider yourself a Christian, are also "wrong." I doubt you believe yourself to be wrong about, what, everything?
I would like to suggest a Biblical (i.e. God's) perspective on Israel. The Jews are God's "chosen people," who yet have an amazing destiny with Him. But at the present, and in fact, for the past hundreds and hundreds (at least 2500) of years, they have been in a persistent state of rebellion against Him to the point where He has basically walked away from them, leaving them on their own (Hosea 5:14-6:2*). Hence they are no different than any other nation on the earth that walks in its own wisdom and will; hence the evil and corruption that you see in them. The church sees them as the chosen people, but is largely overlooking and/or blind to the evil that's there, wanting to treat them as though they're fine with God...The truth is that they are headed for what the prophet Jeremiah calls "the time of Jacob's trouble" - a time under the rule of antichrist that will be a time of trouble worse than the earth - and Israel - has ever known in the past and ever will know again. God will use this time of suffering to bring them back to Him. There are many scriptures that speak clearly of this time and of God's purposes for them. That time of trouble will take place during the 2nd half of the last 7 years. The 7 years will be launched with a "peace" treaty between antichrist and Israel (Daniel 9:27) with the antichrist being a deceptively pious and good man, deceiving many. Israel will be thoroughly deceived, and then, halfway through those seven years, betrayed by this man. To have a 'Biblical' view means we are not blind to their present evil (as many Christians seem to be), but though we see it, we see beyond that to promises in the Word of future trouble, humbling, repentance, followed by great blessing for them under Messiah.
I will add, that I see the church's buddy-buddy attitude toward Israel to reveal a troubling lack of depth and discernment...
Here are the Apostle Paul's words regarding Israel back at his time, and they haven't changed:
"... the Jews... who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
"Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they [the Gentiles] might be saved, to fill up their [the Jews'] sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost" 1 Thess. 2:15-16.
*Applying here 2 Peter 3:8, that with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years.
Hi Chris! Today you mentioned consulting- made me think about how I would love to see something like a lecture or webinar or similar or sort of similar formatโฆprobably lots of us who would be interested. I also think you should be the head of philosophy at the new American Institute that may replace Harvard ๐
Not the place to go deep into theology or study of the Bible. But. Do yourself this favor (readers/listeners here, do the same thing) -- go to Biblehub .com (or your favorite Bible study website/app) and do a search for "๐ฎ๐ป๐๐ถ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฟ๐ถ๐๐." What do you find? Where are all the occurrences [5x] of that word found (clue: 1 Jn 2 [3x] & 4 [1x] and 2 Jn [1x])? Now, go find all the occurrences of that word in the Revelation (clue: you won't).
And now read what John says about the "antichrist." Who is he/they? When will he/they appear? Oh, whoops ... ๐๐ผ๐ต๐ป ๐๐ฒ๐น๐น๐ ๐๐ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ต๐ฒ ๐ถ๐ ๐๐๐ฅ๐๐๐๐ฌ ๐ถ๐ป ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐น๐ฑ, ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ ๐ถ๐ป ๐ณ๐ฎ๐ฐ๐ ๐บ๐ฎ๐ป๐ "๐ฎ๐ป๐๐ถ๐ฐ๐ต๐ฟ๐ถ๐๐๐" ๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐ฎ๐น๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ ๐ถ๐ป ๐๐ต๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐น๐ฑ. When was that? I am quite confident that John wrote his Gospel, letters, and the Revelation before the destruction of Jerusalem. So that would be before 70AD, probably in the 60s of the 1stC.
So where in the world does all this talk come from about the Bible preaching about the coming of some future "antichrist" ... ??? ๐๐'๐ ๐ฝ๐๐ฟ๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐น๐น๐๐๐ผ๐ผ๐ฑ (ie, profitable "biblical/religious" fiction)! They (antichrists) have been with us for millennia, as John (meaning as God the Holy Spirit speaking/writing through him), explains in 1 Jn 2.18-19, 22-23. Read and learn. BTW, I am one of many that also fully believe that the Revelation, the Apocalypse, records history past through symbolic language, but that's another big topic.
Iโm with you. I think much of American Christianity has succumbed to the Scofield Bible and its consequences.
I have NEVER used the Scofield Bible, but the teaching of the reality of an Antichrist who is coming is ALL OVER the Bible.
If you read 1 John 2:18 carefully, you will see that John said, ".... you have heard that Antichrist SHALL COME (future), and even now, there are many antichrists..." So John taught that there was ONE that was coming yet in the future who would be a pretender, a counterfeit Christ, but that already there were similar spirits abroad in the church with a goal to war against and REPLACE the presence of the Holy Spirit among God's people. John made it clear that these are SPIRITS that war against the Holy Spirit in the church and work through given individuals ("false prophets" 4:1). Because they work deceptively, with these individuals pretending to be 'bona fide' Christians, the spirits have to BE TESTED FOR - DISCERNED, because they APPEAR outwardly TO BE OKAY. (They are RELIGIOUS SPIRITS who bring deadness into the church, replacing subtly the life and presence of Jesus the Christ. ['Christ' means 'the anointed One' and the Gk. prefix 'anti' means both 'against' and 'in place of'.] )
The Antichrist's ultimate reign in the earth - brief and bitter - is portrayed in Rev. 13. We understand who this one is (in that chapter), even though the title 'antichrist' is not spelled out. He is spoken of many times in the Old Testament as well as the New, where in 2 Thess. 2, he is called 'the man of sin' (v. 3) and 'the lawless one' (v. 8) and where we are informed that he will come 'in the power of Satan with all power and supernatural, lying wonders' (v. 9). To write him off as a Hollywood fabrication is a serious error and completely unbiblical. God will use this man's brief rule over all the earth to bring the earth's people to a fullness of rebellion against Him (as they worship him, as per his demand), thus bringing them to 'ripeness' for His tremendous judgment on them all and thus the final cleansing of the earth of all wickedness. Jesus won the victory over Satan at Calvary, but His victory has not yet been fully executed in the unseating of Satan as the 'prince of this world' (John 14:30). That unseating will happen after Antichrist's brief (3 1/2 years) rule. Then all the earth and the remaining inhabitants will come under the righteous and beneficent rule of Christ -- the true Christ. The One who died for all and rose again.
I just read it this morning, yeah.
Once again, not exactly the venue for an in-depth discussion of these topics, but I will respond a little to what you have said, for the sake especially of Chris, who I fully believe continues to seek the truth. I'm available, btw, if you ever have the desire ... let me know.
First of all, the verb in greek [erchetai] is present tense, middle or passive, ie, "comes" or "is coming." But he explains immediately to his listeners/readers, who have been perplexed by it all, who have been waiting for Jesus' prophecy that "all this will happen to / come upon this generation" to be fulfilled, that the fact is that "antichrist" IS ALREADY in the world, in fact that MANY antichrists have already arisen in the world.
He, in fact, uses that fact as evidence that they, the faithful on one side, including faithful Israel, the faithful and elect remnant God promised throughout the OT, esp. through the prophets, to save, and apostate Israel, the majority, on the other, are nearing the *"last hour" -- the establishment of the long-promised Kingdom of Christ, the New Jerusalem, for the former; and the end, the total destruction of the dying, now totally corrupted system of apostate Israel, now based almost totally on manmade doctrines and traditions that had little to do with the law of Moses or anything else God had commanded, as Jesus pointed out many times in the Gospels, often quoting the prophets, like Isaiah -- paraphrased, "you worship God with your lips, your fake external behaviors, but your hearts are far from Him, following as commandments the traditions of man."
[*Another topic, but an important one -- the "last times" / "end times" / "last hour" refer to the end of apostate Israel, of Jerusalem and its Temple "worship," of the sacrificial system that had been completely corrupted, the fulfillment of the prophecies, starting with Moses [Dt 28-31, Lv 26] of the final punishment of the those that had broken their Covenant with YHWH, in fulfillment of that Covenant made on Sinai w/the children of Israel, in this case, of the curses that were delineated in the covenant that in the end would come upon those that would break it. It was the end of that epoch / era ... the end and final fulfillment of the Old Covenant to make way for the full enactment of the New Covenant (eg, Heb8.13), where there would be no more physical "Temple" but the temple of God would be spread throughout the world, now alive and well in the hearts of all who belong to Him. So much more, but it's not the direct topic here....]
John states that "they" (plural ... these antichrists already in the world) were once part of "them" ... perhaps, or actually very likely, Christians, likely Jewish "believers" in Christ, who left the faith, the teachings of Jesus, because they really never belonged to Him, never really believed. And John makes it even clearer by explaining exactly what he means by "antichrist" in 2.22-23: "... the one [anyone] denying that Jesus is the Christ ... this one is the antichrist, the one [anyone] denying the Father and the Son. EVERYONE denying the Son neither has he the Father; the one/anyone confessing the Son also has the Father." So, "antichrist" is applied to all that deny Jesus as the Son of God and the promised Messiah that had come as a man, in the flesh (1Jn.4.2). And John emphasizes once again in 1Jn4.3 the "spirit of the antichrist, which you heard is coming and IS NOW ALREADY IN THE WORLD."
So Rev 13 ... very briefly, as books have been written, I'll point out that from my study of the Word of God, from all evidence I have, the Beast that emerges from the sea (the "sea" in Scriptures, esp. here in the Revelation (eg, 17.15), refers frequently to "the gentiles" while "the land," as in "those that dwell on/in the Land," refers to the Land of Israel) is Rome, another of the Kingdoms of this world whose goal/motivation by all evidence, because of who is behind these kingdoms, the Dragon, is always the destruction of those created in God's image, and esp. now of the male child, His son in the flesh, the Messiah that God sent for the salvation of those that belong to Him and of the world, the Lamb of God, slain but now Alive and all-powerful, the Lion of Judah, and those that follow Him. The power behind Rome, the Beast from the sea, is Satan -- the Dragon of Rev.12.
And we see another Beast rising up from "the land" (v.11) -- from the Land of Israel. This beast appears to be pious, godly, as indicated by its having two horns, "like a lamb," but the fact is that when it opens its mouth out pour the words and "wisdom" of the Dragon. It represents apostate Israel, and especially its apostate religious leaders who enjoy power and authority through their connection with Rome. Its why Caiaphas tells the Sanhedrin that Jesus has got to go, o/w He's going to destroy the good thing we've got going with Rome and they'll come and end our party that has made us so rich (think the Temple trade, and why Jesus drove out the traders/sellers) and powerful (through hundreds of manmade rules and regulations) ... better He die than we lose everything. Can't have someone around calling Himself and being called the "King of the Jews" ... we only have one king, they will cry to Pilate, amidst their cries to "Crucify him!" ... and that is Caesar!
So, there is no "antichrist" in this chapter, neither written nor implied. John already defined what was meant by that word, and the Romans don't fit that -- they were not once "believers" in Christ that had apostasized. And unless there were some in the Sanhedrin of that time that had at one time professed belief in Jesus as the Christ and then recanted, one could not say they that there were "antichrists" among them either. So you have simply overlaid the Word of God with your interpretation, which I am suggesting is totally incorrect. Your creating "antichrists" where they don't exist.
And btw, my best understanding of v.18 is Nero -- Neron Qsr. John states that the name can be understood by those who have understanding. And he was speaking / writing to Christians of the first century. And I'll end this here. But this is just a thumbnail. God's Word is so rich and deep....
How do you think of the uppercase vs lowercase โAntichristโ vs โantichristโ in 1 John?
Good question, and the answer is simple -- there is no uppercase in the Greek, they're all lower case. If you've got uppercase in your Bible, it was made so by some person who determined to do so influenced by his/her own interpretation(s) of Scripture. In this case, it's just a man-originated decision, as were chapters and verses and "paragraph" headings, among other things.
One of the benefits of always looking at the original Greek and Hebrew* is that it helps reveal the biases of the translators, often by their very choice, or exclusion, of certain words over others. (*An interlinear Bible, esp. online, such as at biblehub.com, is IMO very helpful, if not critical, for study of the Bible, and it doesn't require full knowledge of those languages, though there is an extra benefit for those that do have that added knowledge.)
Cont'd from previous response which begins, "Just a few points in response..."
There are MANY other Scriptures which speak of this man, though it's only in 1 John that he's labeled "Antichrist." This labeling is a key to understanding how he functions and the fact that he arises from within the church, appearing very pious and godly. This is how he will deceive MANY, as Jesus prophesied in Matt. 24. John started out, "You have heard that antichrist is coming...." I pondered, 'WHERE had they heard it...??? And I thought, yes! He is referring to Jesus' teaching in Matt. 24 on the End....' So Matt. 24 -- Jesus' teaching on the END -- begins with the warning, "See that you are not deceived, for MANY shall come in My name, claiming the anointing and will deceive MANY." If this guy didn't show up as a PIOUS, GODLY person in the beginning, Israel would NEVER make the treaty with him (Dan. 9:27), nor would MANY BE DECEIVED! John's teaching on antichrist spirits and how they work is extremely vital for understanding this guy that is coming and how he will arise and deceive many, as Jesus prophesied.
We look for a treaty between a 'man on the rise' and Israel, a treaty which apparently will allow for the rebuilding of their temple in Jerusalem! We will beware this man, for he is a DECEIVER.
Just a few points in response... :-)
There's no question that John distinguishes "one that is (yet)coming" from a plural 'group' that is already present and afflicting the church already in John's time - deceivers, because they have to be TESTED FOR - DISCERNED. (1 John 4)
Secondly, in both Daniel and Revelation, the term 'beast' is used for these great, pagan, idolatrous kingdoms that afflicted the people of God. Included is the END TIME kingdom -- a revived Roman empire -- (Dan. 2:31-34, especially v. 33 - both the legs and toes are of iron - Rome -- we see the earth already being divided into 10 regions - [the toes], and, Daniel prophesied that it would be 'the people of the prince that SHALL come that will destroy Jerusalem - 70 AD - Romans destroyed Jerusalem. Hence, a prince of the revived Roman empire will arise...) (Sorry, getting in the weeds a little here.....) But my point is, that 'beast' is used interchangeably for both the kingdom and its leader, and you must discern from the context which is being referred to in any given place. THEREFORE, Rev. 13, which is the chapter on the reign of Antichrist, coming yet in the future, starts out speaking of the beast KINGDOM (the 10-toed one of Daniel - see, it has 10 horns) but by v. 4, is referring -- clearly -- to an INDIVIDUAL, which I submit IS the Antichrist. I refer you again to 2 Thess. 2:3-4, which describes the actions of this man that is yet coming, when he GOES INTO THE TEMPLE AND DECLARES HIMSELF TO BE GOD, and demands worship as God. This has never happened - never been fulfilled yet. KEY POINT! (Cont'd in another reply.)
By your stating, "There's no question that John...", you're also making it clear to me that you already feel you understand it all, so there's really no good reason for me to argue further. I DO question what you wrote, and in fact disagree. So there -- there IS a question. You also state in another response -- "We look for a treaty between a 'man on the rise' and Israel...." I don't, so once again, you have obviously decided to believe someone's interpretation and are simply promoting it. Free world with free speech. But I for one disagree completely that that is what the Scriptures state and I am NOT looking for that.
And I'm responding, as I said, for Chris's sake. I want him to know that there are other interpretations than the most popular ones, many of which I at one time or other believed or tried to believe but in the end couldn't because they contradict other Scriptures in so many ways and places. So, God bless you. I've done what I wanted to do here. Chris, I'm available if you ever have Biblical questions that I might be able to help you with.
Iโve spent enough time considering eschatology that Iโm at least generally familiar with the various viewpoints. I know there are other arguments. I donโt really side with mainstream Christianity about anything, so I assume from the get-go that theyโre wrong and then just thing about which interpretation would most well express Jesusโ preeminence in virtue and thought. The right thing is the only meaning that wouldโve been chosen by that metric which, of course, all the rest is also based on. Which answer best expresses that?
Hey Chris, you say, "...which interpretation would most well express Jesusโ preeminence in virtue and thought. The right thing is the only meaning that wouldโve been chosen by that metric which, of course, all the rest is also based on. Which answer best expresses that?"
Not sure I understand what you're saying here and if you're actually asking a question at the end with "which answer best expresses that?" Could you flesh that out a bit?
I generally agree with you about "mainstream Christianity" and their latest and greatest interpretations of the Bible (probably going back a few hundred years now), but that doesn't mean that all Christians are wrong, in which case, you, if you consider yourself a Christian, are also "wrong." I doubt you believe yourself to be wrong about, what, everything?
I would like to suggest a Biblical (i.e. God's) perspective on Israel. The Jews are God's "chosen people," who yet have an amazing destiny with Him. But at the present, and in fact, for the past hundreds and hundreds (at least 2500) of years, they have been in a persistent state of rebellion against Him to the point where He has basically walked away from them, leaving them on their own (Hosea 5:14-6:2*). Hence they are no different than any other nation on the earth that walks in its own wisdom and will; hence the evil and corruption that you see in them. The church sees them as the chosen people, but is largely overlooking and/or blind to the evil that's there, wanting to treat them as though they're fine with God...The truth is that they are headed for what the prophet Jeremiah calls "the time of Jacob's trouble" - a time under the rule of antichrist that will be a time of trouble worse than the earth - and Israel - has ever known in the past and ever will know again. God will use this time of suffering to bring them back to Him. There are many scriptures that speak clearly of this time and of God's purposes for them. That time of trouble will take place during the 2nd half of the last 7 years. The 7 years will be launched with a "peace" treaty between antichrist and Israel (Daniel 9:27) with the antichrist being a deceptively pious and good man, deceiving many. Israel will be thoroughly deceived, and then, halfway through those seven years, betrayed by this man. To have a 'Biblical' view means we are not blind to their present evil (as many Christians seem to be), but though we see it, we see beyond that to promises in the Word of future trouble, humbling, repentance, followed by great blessing for them under Messiah.
I will add, that I see the church's buddy-buddy attitude toward Israel to reveal a troubling lack of depth and discernment...
Here are the Apostle Paul's words regarding Israel back at his time, and they haven't changed:
"... the Jews... who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
"Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they [the Gentiles] might be saved, to fill up their [the Jews'] sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost" 1 Thess. 2:15-16.
*Applying here 2 Peter 3:8, that with the Lord, a day is as a thousand years.
Hi Chris! Today you mentioned consulting- made me think about how I would love to see something like a lecture or webinar or similar or sort of similar formatโฆprobably lots of us who would be interested. I also think you should be the head of philosophy at the new American Institute that may replace Harvard ๐
Hahaha that would be a fun job.